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Born Again Christians created a new topic ' 700 victims of Southern Baptist sexual abuse' in the forum. 1 week ago

Such sad news...
I am writing this morning’s Daily Article with a grieving heart.
I became a Christian in a Southern Baptist Sunday school class and was baptized in a Southern Baptist church. I was licensed and ordained as a vocational minister in that church. I attended college at a Texas Baptist university and graduate school at a Southern Baptist seminary. I taught on that seminary’s faculty and pastored four churches affiliated in various ways with the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC).



Incredible news from Will Graham of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association


Born Again Christians created a new topic ' Should men be able to breastfeed?' in the forum. 1 week ago

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Born Again Christians created a new topic ' The Paradox of a Righteous Lot - By Pete Garcia -' in the forum. 1 week ago

The Paradox of a Righteous Lot - By Pete Garcia -

Most of us alive here in America tend to see the world with a western worldview. This worldview works fine for everyday life, but can cause the average western believer consternation when trying to make sense of certain parts of the Scriptures. All Scripture is giving by inspiration of God through the Holy Spirit (2 Tim 3:16), but what we fail to sometimes take into account, was that the men who physically wrote the Bible, were all from the Oriental world.

The Old Testament was written almost entirely in Hebrew and with a small portion in Aramaic. The New Testament was written entirely in Koine Greek (the common vernacular of the day). Nevertheless, it was Jewish men, who thought with a Hebraic mindset, which wrote both Old and New Testaments. Therefore, when we modern westerners get to certain parts of the scriptures, the text seems to be paradoxical and we often times get perplexed at the seeming contradictions.

However, to the Hebrew mind, opposing ideas could be equally accepted at the same time. Patterns that formed cycles were key to understanding the fullness of the entirety of the message. The Hebrew culture (like other eastern cultures) used what has been deemed, "block logic", and in Marvin Wilson's "Our Father Abraham-Jewish Roots of the Christian Faith", he makes some interesting points about the two:

The use of what may be termed block logic is another important contour of Hebrew thought. Greek logic, which has to a large extent influenced the Western world, was different. The Greeks often used a tightly contained step logic whereby one would argue from premises to a conclusion, each step linked tightly to the next in coherent, rational, logical fashion. The conclusion, however, was usually limited to one point of view-the human being's perception of reality


The Hebrew knew he did not know all the answers. His position was 'under the sun' (Ecc. 8:17), so his words were few (5:2). He refused to over-systematize or forced harmonization on the enigmas of God's truth or the puzzles of the universe. He realized that no one could straighten what God has made crooked (7:13). All things, therefore, did not need to be fully rational. The Hebrew mind was willing to accept the truths taught on both sides of the paradox; it recognized that mystery and apparent contradictions are often signs of the divine. Stated succinctly, the Hebrews knew the wisdom of learning to trust in matters that they could not fully understand.

In layman's terms, those influenced in western thought, i.e....the Greco-Roman world-view, understood things in a linear, logical manner. We try to apply logic to a problem in order to come up with the most logical solution. Applying this type of mental methodology to Bible prophecy, can often times frustrates the purpose, which then causes confusion. Marvin Wilson provides some excellent examples in which 'block logic' is used in Scriptures:

The book of Exodus says that Pharaoh hardened his heart, but it also says that God hardened it (Ex. 8:15; cf. 7:3). The prophets teach that God is both wrathful and merciful (Isa. 45:7; Hab. 3:2). The New Testament refers to [Yeshua] as the 'Lamb of God' and the 'Lion of the tribe of Judah' (Jn. 1:29, 36; Rev. 5:5). Hell is described as both 'blackest darkness' and the fiery lake' (Jude 13; Rev. 19:20). In terms of salvation, [Yeshua] said, 'whoever comes to me I will never drive away,' yet no one can come 'unless the Father draws him' (Jn. 6:37, 44). To find life you must lose it (Mt. 10:39). When you are weak, then you are strong (2 Cor. 12:10). The way up (exaltation) is the way down (humility) (Lk. 14:11). 'Jacob have I loved and Esau have I hated' (Rom. 9:13; Mal. 1:3).

Block logic is the mindset, that one can accept two opposing ideas as both equally true... it all depends on whose perception one is looking through.

Old Testament Lot

Throughout the entirety of his account beginning in Genesis chapter 11, through chapter 19, Lot was always living in the shadow of his older cousin Abram (Abraham). When they arrived at Canaan, Abram gave him the choice cut of land and they parted ways. A little later on, some wicked kings kidnapped Lot and Abram had to come to the rescue. From there, the Lord and two angels visit Abraham and give him a heads up, that they were going to visit Sodom and Gomorrah, and then destroy it. Abraham, knowing Lot lived there, asked one of the most pivotal questions that sets the tone for the rest of the Scriptures:

And Abraham came near and said, "Would You also destroy the righteous with the wicked? Genesis 18:23

Two angels were dispatched to Sodom and Gomorrah, and there Lot met them at the gate. He persuaded them to come back to his house because he knew the kind of evil that would befall these visitors should they remain out in the open. However, this did not stop the men of the city from surrounding Lot's house and attempting to break down the door to get to them. Lot does what any "red-blooded father" would do...and he offers up his two daughters in exchange for these visitors safety. The outraged mob attempt to rush Lot and the visitors...

In addition, they (the mob) said,

"Stand back!" Then they said, "This one (Lot) came in to stay here, and he keeps acting as a judge; now we will deal worse with you than with them." So they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near to break down the door. But the men reached out their hands and pulled Lot into the house with them, and shut the door. And they struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they became weary trying to find the door. Genesis 19:9-11

From there, the two visitors and Lot with family in tow depart the city early in the morning. Lot's wife looks back and is turned into a pillar of salt. Lot ends up in the mountains with his two daughters, and they get him drunk and seduce him so they could be impregnated.

Impressed yet?

Seems like Lot is always getting himself into some kind of precarious situation.

New Testament Lot

Lot is referenced twice in the New Testament; first in Luke 17, when Jesus referencing what the world will be like when He returns, pointed back to the wickedness of that time. The second mention is by the Apostle Peter. And here, Peter gives three different examples of the punishment in which God had served in the past to curb the wickedness in the world: the fallen angels who left their first estate and copulated with human women, the wicked people in Noah's day, and the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah in Lot's day...

....and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)- 2 Peter 2:7-8

WHAT?! Did I miss something in the Genesis account? Three times, Peter was moved by the Holy Spirit to call this man Lot righteous. What did we see of this man's life and actions in the Old Testament that would warrant him being addressed as righteous now?

Remember that thing about 'block logic'? There is where our perception and God's, see things differently.

The Church

Just turn on the news or read the Drudge Report one day and you can quickly see the awful wickedness that permeates this day and age we live in. Lot's circumstance was just a microcosm of what we experience today. Both news and travel have greatly increased (Dan 12:4), and we know what's going on in the world as it happens. Since bad news sells better than good news, we are inundated with as much of it as one can take.

Whether it's horrific crimes committed against the innocent, or wars, pestilence, famines, and corruption, you can be sure that no matter where you look, you don't have to look hard. For those of us who watch the signs of the times, it can make you weary and long for the Lord to return. Even now we are being oppressed by the filthy conduct that is being pressed on us to accept as normal by the "civilized" world. The issues includes: drugs, gay marriage, abortion, anti-Christian propaganda, euthanasia, apostate and false religious movements, genetic engineering, and violence perpetrated against the Church in many parts of the world.

Is your soul tormented? If it's not, then your head is in the proverbial hole in the sand. Remember, we are tri-partite beings: body, soul, and spirit. Even though one is saved (revived spirit), our souls (the conscious) is being tested like never before. The floodgates of evil are being opened and we are getting just a taste of what's going to be turned loose during the Tribulation. Even now, we are weary and long to be home in heaven with our Savior.

For those who don't watch for the Lord's soon return, it's just business as usual. And that attitude often feeds the frustration many of us feel when sharing the gospel with urgency we know...with the apathetic or spiritually blinded who don't know how close to the end we really are, nor do they want to know.

The Pattern and the Plan

According to the Strong's Lexicon, Lot's name in Hebrew means "Covering" and since he had to be removed prior to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, we too will be removed prior to the Wrath of God being poured out on this world. As the body of Christ on earth, we are inhabited and sealed by the Holy Spirit, overcomers chosen by God before the foundation of the world ever came to be (Eph 1:4). [The Plan] At the Rapture, the Holy Spirit's ministry of restraint is likewise removed, and God's wrath is poured out on a Christ rejecting world. When the covering is removed, God's wrath was poured out on the plains cities of Sodom and Gomorrah. When the Church is removed (along with the Restrainer) the wrath will be poured out. This pattern is repeated throughout the Scriptures. God does not destroy the righteous with the wicked. [The Pattern] Although we don't see much righteousness in Lot's testimony, God did. Although we don't have much to brag about ourselves, God sees us as righteous through the shed blood of His Son on the cross at Calvary. It may not always make sense to us, but it does to God. And I love it when God's plan comes together!

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him. 2 Corinthians 5:2


Born Again Christians created a new topic ' Government pushing ahead with no-fault divorce' in the forum. 1 week ago

The Government is moving ahead with plans to change the law to allow no-fault divorce, justice secretary David Gauke has confirmed.

Mr Gauke is to introduce legislation in the next session of Parliament that will eliminate the existing need for couples to aportion blame to their spouses as grounds for the divorce.

At present, the law offers the alternative of both parties living separately by mutual agreement for two years. But in some cases, the wait is longer if the couple are unable to prove that their marriage broke down because of adultery, unreasonable behaviour or desertion, or where one spouse is contesting the divorce, in which case they must live apart for five years before they can divorce.
This will all change with the legislation being brought in by the Government after submissions to its consultation on the reforms showed broad support. ...


While Americans have rightly mourned the passage of New York’s brutal abortion law allowing for the killing of pre-born babies up to full term, there are actually seven other states that similarly have no “gestational limits” on abortion.
Alaska, Colorado, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Oregon, and Vermont — along with Washington, D.C. — all allow women to kill their pre-born babies at any time up to full term. These policies have been on the books in those states for a number of years.
Additionally, reported the Christian Post, “all states that have laws banning late-term abortion still allow exceptions under certain circumstances, as noted by the Guttmacher Institute” — a pro-abortion “research” group launched by Planned Parenthood. Those exceptions include babies who may be born with physical disabilities, along with exemptions for the supposed health of a mother — which has come to ...


YouTube video about the Simon Harris abortion bill... This had me in tears today...


After struggle with mental illness, megachurch pastor Jim Howard fatally shoots himself…

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Born Again Christians What a tragedy for this to happen... 3 weeks ago

Fury as pregnant mum dragged off train in Sweden…

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Born Again Christians Disgraceful behaviour... 3 weeks ago
Born Again Christians created a new topic ' Dam collapse with hundreds missing in Brazil' in the forum. 4 weeks ago

A dam collapses in Brazil causing horrific damage with hundreds missing and scores of people killed. Please be praying that people will be found safe and well and give courage and strength to the rescue teams.


Born Again Christians created a new topic ' Happy Australia Day 2019' in the forum. 4 weeks ago

Happy Australia Day to all our Aussie visitors, have a great day when you observe it on Monday. It marks the anniversary of the arrival of the British ship fleet in 1788 at Port Jackson, New South Wales and the raising of the Flag of Great Britain at Sydney Cove by Governor Arthur Phillip.


The Wrath of God and Satan: When Do They Begin? - By Paul Kocourek -

This whole thing of timing the Rapture with being just before the wrath of God at the 6th Seal is "barking up the wrong tree." Proponents of the Pre-Wrath Rapture and the Jacob Prasch Intra-Seal Rapture both depend on using the expressed wrath of God as the determining factor of when the Rapture will happen in relation to the 70th Week (aka the Tribulation). Then to compound their error, they teach a "wrath of Satan" being something that happens at the beginning of the seven years.

Revelation 12 tells us when the wrath of Satan begins. It is AFTER the middle of the 7 years, which means after the AOD (Abomination of Desolation, Dan 9:27; Matthew 24:15-16).

"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Rev 12:17).

So, it is a complete error to say it is Satan's wrath in the first 3 ½ years. Totally false!

Secondly, it is moot whether God's wrath starts at the 1st Seal or later at the 6th or 7th Seal. His wrath is already generally expressed from heaven against all ungodly sinners, as Paul wrote in Romans:

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness" (Rom 1:18).

During the seven years of the 70th Week, that general wrath is expressed in the judgments that start with the 1st Seal. It is Jesus, not Satan, breaking those Seals to begin pouring out judgments on a wicked world.

When the massacre of believers instigated by the Antichrist happens after the AOD, then the nature of the wrath of God changes. It is no longer a dispassionate dispensing of justice. Now, it becomes PERSONAL! The wrath expressed in the 6th Seal and beyond is a personal grudge against those who have wholesale murdered His believers.

So, yes, it is ALL God's wrath during all the 70th Week (aka the Tribulation), but what happens at the 6th Seal is an INTENSIFIED wrath! It is the wrath of personal vengeance.

Paul wrote:

"Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord" (Rom 12:19).

Thirdly, the timing of the Rapture is due to the closing out of the Dispensation of Grace, turning back to fulfilling promises made by God to Israel. The evidence we see for this is the nature of who is sharing the gospel with the world.

The Church was given the Great Commission. We are to be Christ's witnesses.

"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth" (Acts 1:8).

The TW (Two Witnesses) are also given a commission:

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth" (Rev 11:3).

The TW perform their ministry during the first 1,260 days of the 70th Week, ending on the day the Antichrist commits the AOD.

If the Church were still on earth past the start of the 7 years, what need is there for two special witnesses? Christ already would have (if the Church were still here) MILLIONS of witnesses. After all, we have been given the commission to be Christ's witnesses, and as far as I know, that has never been revoked.

Someone might say, well, the TW do miracles. My answer is, so what? The Apostles did miracles.

There is no sensible or logical reason for God to introduce Two Witnesses when millions of witnesses are already here. That is, unless of course, the Pre-Trib Rapture removed all those millions, and now there is a need for Two Witnesses to preach Jesus Christ.

In conclusion, the entire seven years of the 70th Week (aka the Tribulation) is God's wrath, and as such, He will be pouring out judgment resulting in death and destruction on a rebellious world.

It is for the reasons above, plus many others, that we know the Rapture of the Church happens before those final seven years of the Tribulation begin.


Regarding the Rapture and Revelation 13:7 - By Walter Grace -

Heavenly Father, I'm asking that Your will be done with this post. My "job" is to encourage and educate; not to condemn, and this should be for Your glory. In this I pray; Amen.

For one thing, the belief of the pre-tribulation Rapture is under attack, from many other groups that never seem to bother much with each other, but I'm digressing already. Henry Kaiser, industrialist and auto magnate, once said that problems are really opportunities in working clothes. In that context, I've been getting a few questions on this subject, and this is a good opportunity to answer questions and offer some encouragement. What a deal!

The question I got - and I'm paraphrasing it - goes like this:

In regards to the Rapture, Revelation 13:7 reads that the Antichrist will war against the saints and overcome them. According to this verse we will be here when the Antichrist is here, so isn't the bride here until Revelation 19?

One thing to remember is that the Bible is a collection of books with chapters first. The numbered verses came later. While the Book of Proverbs and to some extent Psalms' verses have most if not all of their meaning as a stand-alone verse, this is not necessarily true with the Bible altogether. If you apply the stand-alone verse format to the entire Bible, you will corrupt or misunderstand it entirely. Matthew 7:1 seems to come to mind here.

Revelation 13 KJV

13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

So even if you read this chapter, you might surmise that the church is going to go through the Tribulation because of the word "saints."

And the dictionary doesn't do justice to the word either, but a saint is simply a believer. The church (ekklesia) are the believers, the bride of Christ today. Yes, the church are also saints because you can't be part of the church and not be a saint.

Matthew 16:13-18

13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
14 And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

This passage is why the church cannot be the saints in Revelation 13. Belief in Jesus as God the Son is the rock on which the church is built, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. But the Tribulation saints will have a much tougher time because the Antichrist will have authority over them. Right now, if you're a Christian, you are sealed in the Holy Spirit. It is Jesus who has authority over you.

Because people living in the Tribulation rejected Jesus before the rapture, they are under a different authority and are going to have to endure to the end to be saved. If they take the mark, the only seal they will get is eternal damnation, regardless of what they do. They will be responsible for their own salvation. Again, this is in sharp contrast to the church age today.

Hopefully this answers that question. I know many are getting weary, and I can't tell you how much longer we're going to have to wait; but we need to wait regardless and be busy with God's work. When the rapture happens, it will give Satan the opportunity to wreak havoc on humankind. It will also be for the glory of God as He will bring judgment and offer redemption to the lost at this time, including bringing Israel "under the rod." It will also give Israel the opportunity to evangelize the world AND accept Jesus as their Messiah.

If I were you, I would accept Jesus while the cost is still low. The Tribulation will be a living, breathing nightmare akin to a slasher movie where nearly EVERYONE will have to look over their shoulder. It will make such movies as Event Horizon and The Purge look like a romantic comedy by comparison. There will be food, water and energy shortages where a good day will be worse than Venezuela's economic woes. Even the first half will be horrible. I've heard some brothers and sisters say they are looking forward to it. I can't imagine anyone in their right mind, even with a strong masochistic streak, looking forward to any of it.